Curtis Duggan: Hey, Remotely Serious listeners, thanks for tuning in again. Just a quick public service announcement. If you are able to rate us and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to us, we would greatly appreciate it. You know the drill. It's how these things grow and get bigger and we can get more and more guests on.
If you can support us in that way, that would be much, much appreciated. My next conversation is with Han Talbot. She's at Han Meets World on social media. She is the host of the Remote Life Podcast, and she is a digital nomad who has been doing content creation and living the digital nomad lifestyle for quite some time.
She's got experience in South America, the Balkans, the Iberian Peninsula, all over the world really. And I really I met her in Montreal in 2022 at running remote, and I've really appreciated her perspective ever since I met her and have been following her ever since. So let's jump right in.
Hey, welcome back to Remotely Sirius. We're here with Han Talbott, a digital nomad extraordinaire, also a podcaster, a content creator, blogger, many traveler, many other things. And Hannah I've been following a little bit of what you've been doing in 2023 and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you spent.
A decent amount of time in some of the Balkan countries that are emerging as digital nomad destinations. I think I've seen Bosnia. Certainly Croatia and Dubrovnik. Have you been to, have you stamped all the stamps on the passport in the Balkan countries?
Han Talbot: What's very funny is that I actually hadn't been to the Balkans at all until last year.
Essentially for like most of 2022. The Balkans was basically my second home. Showed it, she was my second home. Yeah, I think I've done a very good portion of them for sure. I'm not gonna claim that I've been to all of them because I've not done like Macedonia, north, Macedonia and Serbia. But yes, definitely had a fair share of experiences in the Balkans in 2022 and in 2023.
So very exciting
Curtis Duggan: stuff. Yeah, it's, it is a region with a lot of history and certainly. Depending on who you ask, you can stretch the definition of what the Balkans are to places like Albania and Slovenia and other places. But there really is that core, especially around Croatia. I would say, is the first mover in terms of establishing a digital nomad brand.
So I. Maybe we can just so the Balkans is new in 2022. Maybe you can just let us know a bit of, not like all the details, but some of the history of where you went first when you decided to be a nomad and why, and then what continents or destinations you've gone to and some favorites and a high level whirlwind tour.
It's a funny
Han Talbot: one because like obviously for me it was never really like overnight I'm gonna be a digital nomad. I've technically been on or remote for about 10 years. I first got into the remote life when I was a student studying abroad in Brazil. I was sat in Sao Paulo airport. I had missed a flight and was there for eight hours and realized I could figure out, I could do my dissertation or my thesis, I think you guys call it while connecting to the wifi in the airport.
And I was like, oh, wow. Like this is quite life changing thing. What do you, if we
Curtis Duggan: call it a dissertation on thesis, what do you, what's it called in the UK or what do you call? Dissertation? Dissertation. Okay. Yeah.
Han Talbot: We called it something random in my university. 'cause it was like the only university out of two at the time that made you do it while you were on your study abroad year and in the target language.
So it was intense. But yeah, also I was I studied and lived in Brazil during the World Cup that year. So again, there was the whole separate load of like things that happened that meant that I had to be quick, think quickly on my feet. And so I then started discovering that I could connect.
To different connections in like libraries and towns and things like that. And yeah, that kind of started the, one of the many, I think, series of realizations that I am not gonna want to do a traditional job. And I even said to a friend that year, I am gonna create a career outta social media, not go down the traditional routes that a lot of people were expecting me to.
But I would say that, Then another part was I graduated and I moved to London where all like the social media work was for us at the time and I started working remotely around the city, which now feels like a bit of a crazy thing because London was expensive before, 20 16, 20 17. Now it has got.
Kind of crazy, I would say. But again, I spent more years first working remotely around London, around the UK and like Oxford, Manchester another different city in the uk. First before starting to take my laptop further afield. And I was doing this research and things around the digital nomad lifestyle for contracts and my own content that I was doing for Handmaid's World, which had started at that point which meant that.
I was then starting to see people traveling and working and people doing this, the traditional go to Bali, go to a cowork space that lets you take your shoes off and whatnot. And so it was more. That I saw it as a lifestyle and I started dipping in and out of it in different ways because the thing about like the London industry, for example, is that a lot of people who are remote workers tend to be in specific industries rather than it being like a specific digital NAC community.
So yeah, technically I was already remote working, but the actual then, Decision I say in air quotes, if you like, came about because I was already doing half, half remote. Once I went freelance and then the pandemic kind of really gave me the like real kicker to go no. Now I'm going full-time remote.
Now I know I can do my job remotely. I.
Curtis Duggan: It sounds like not necessarily the same analogous story as some digital nomads who are working a corporate nine to five job sitting in the cubicle like office space, and then one day the light bulb goes off, I need to make money online and leave my job and get a remote job or start a remote business.
It was a more of a gradual shift on a spectrum from, homework versus remote work, and then it just happened over a series of years. But So Brazil in the mid 2010s or in the 2010s. That's speaking as a, as someone from the Americas I'm Canadian. Brazil is not even really a destination for a lot of people in the u Ss a Canada and Mexico.
It is down in the southern hemisphere, or mostly in the southern hemisphere, I think. And they all speak Portuguese, of course, but it really is this civilization unto itself, almost like the U s A or Russia or China or some of these places where the people that live there can live amongst hundreds of millions of people.
And live in their own civilization. And so it's not a place like Croatia where it's half an hour from the next language or somewhere New York or somewhere in the United States where it might still be in America, but it's a couple hours flight to various places. It is, I. Unique on its own.
And so it's still not, despite it being huge and much, much bigger and having all kinds of different cities and towns and beaches just a continent's worth of places to go, it's still not emerging as a top digital nomad destination. So what is your, what were your experiences, going on a decade ago, maybe a little less than a decade ago, and now in terms of your thoughts on Brazil?
Han Talbot: Brazil's a whole, such a unique country. And going there as a 20, 20 year old, I was 20. It was a massive culture shock for someone like me from like Europe. It was very confronting indeed, but in a good way. Like I knew that I wanted to go out and do something that was different and I know knew that even back then I wanted to do something that would stand out and here I am 10 years later still talking about it.
So I was still had some kind of good instinct about it. Yeah, you literally, from north to south, it's the same time of travel. It takes so much time. Travel. From one from east to west of Europe. That's how big the country is. And pretty much there's a joke within Brazil that kind of anyone can be seen as Brazilian because there's such a mix of race culture.
Like all the rest of it. All in this big country. You've got Brazilian Germans who speak their own dialect of German from way back in the day, or their own version of Italian. They've got like a whole town called blooming out that's dedicated to Uhto Fest. It's it's the village in the middle of the Brazilian mountains.
So it's. There's a lot going on and there's so much to see and do, and. I guess the big thing with Brazil is the fact that, yeah, for one, they speak Portuguese and for a lot of, English speakers like you and I, that's not really a language that people tend to go learn first. Like Spanish is a bit more learn learned, if I can say that.
And of course there is also the massive misconception that the Brazilians speak Spanish which they will tell you. And just like Europe, the Portuguese and Europe, they will tell you, no, we are Portuguese speakers. There's that
Curtis Duggan: too. It's hard to get there too. I think there's these barriers that.
We'll see how they deal. If they want international, more international visitors, it's one of those countries that's big enough that their tourism industry can even just survive on people moving around. In Brazil, I think that's probably 99%, I would guess 99% of their tourism is still just people within Brazil.
I don't know how long it is like for me to get there, but it's probably 16 hours with a layover. So it's a little different when, I guess when Europeans have the Mediterranean and when North Americans are able to get to central and parts of Mexico and parts of Central America. It feels like that land beyond that less, that fewer people go to for, at least from here.
Han Talbot: I think also for myself, it's actually not that far. You can get a direct flight from London to Sa Paulo in about, I think it's 10, 11 hours. It's not actually super difficult for us from say, the UK to get to. And even when I was studying, I was told no, it's gonna become an emerging market. That's a good one to have under your belt.
And it's funny how even for the last 10 years people have been saying, oh, it's an emerging market to me. And even down to like the content creator industry that I don't have a background in. Brazil was one of the biggest creator economies in the world. Solely because of how they use social media.
They use it so differently to us. They use it like a social platform. So it is a huge,
Curtis Duggan: What are some examples of that in terms of how they use it differently?
Han Talbot: So obviously like the way we as English speakers use social media and obviously that technically we created a bunch of the platforms da.
We use it to connect with each other, communicate with each other, but there is just a certain level of there is a way that Brazilians, for example, communicate with each other that is just so much more like they connect so much deeper, much quicker with each other. They just have a way of being That means that they are, as influencers connect with their audience in a whole other level culturally.
Differently than we do, for example, in say the UK or the us we might have one of the more leading, say economies but the influencers still like that person next door that people trust in a whole other way. To answer your question from before, I think I'm very intrigued for Brazil as an economy on so many different levels.
For the digital nomads. I think it's got a lot of potential. I think it's gonna be. Interesting. I've seen some conversations around Brazil online. Some I have strong opinions on. Some are like I'm staying out in this conversation. It's gonna be an interesting one, I think for sure. And to see how English, predominantly English speakers then take that on as a place to go to.
Curtis Duggan: That's interesting about the influencer economy in Brazil. I knew that economies had different, or creator economies had different cultures, but I hadn't heard that specific nuance about the, about Brazilian creators and about Brazilian influencers. But speaking of Portuguese speaking nations, we met the first time in Montreal at the running remote conference, and then more recently at.
Lisbon Lis the 2023 edition of Running Remote in Lisbon, Portugal. So I've been, those are really the only nomad or remote work events I've ever been to in person. I don't have a long history of going to nomad festivals or events. And so I was just curious, that's where I've met you in person. What do you think of running remote and then in relation to other nomad conferences?
I know they focus on different things and running remote has a. Enterprise focus. So what's your experience been on that front? Are they worthwhile? And how do you enjoy getting together in informal events, scheduled events with other nomads and remote workers?
Han Talbot: I think the opportunity for digital nomads and remote workers whose obviously predominant existence tends to be online.
I'm very much behind, behind the screen or screens us, depending on how many you like having working from. I think any opportunity to be able to meet up in real life is a good opportunity. Not that people should be going to maybe absolutely everything and overwhelming themselves, but I think it's a great opportunity for people to connect that, because we're people, at the end of the day, we are humans, we are social beings.
I think being able to meet up and have those. Slightly less formal thought out conversations and to be able to connect on different levels and think of things that you hadn't even thought about before. While, let's say for example, like people are going to that AOL spritz stand next to running remote, for example, and like having a cheeky cocktail and having a like chat about different things.
That's how then projects, more projects and more conversations are then born and more ideas are born. And it creates that deeper connection also that you can get, I think, to an extent from social media and communication online. But I think, yeah, at the end of the day, we are still people and we still crave being around people.
It was funny, I I think a few of us came away from running remote this year, oh, that was a bit intense, but I think it was solely because we were just like the energy was so contagious in that like everybody was so like, just excited to be together and talking and being able to connect and network.
And like for me for example, it was really great to see more tourism boards actually at these kind of events also. So that we can start to actually have not bridge the gap, but it is bridging that gap between. These long-term visitors and
Curtis Duggan: people who are working. Yeah, I saw, I talked to, I talked at, I would say, at length with the Bueno Aires team and a little bit with the TE representative.
There are a few more, I'm probably forgetting, but those two, I remember speaking at length with getting a sense of what they were doing, why we were there in the Balkans. I know and maybe in other places you've spent some time adjacent to or working with digital nomad associations that are looking to represent their destination.
When you were at running remote this year what were your thoughts on the success level or the strategy of destinations that are now trying to, or aiming to market themselves as remote work or digital nomad hubs are they doing the right thing? Do you look at them and, I don't tell anyone that you made friends with it running remote, but in general.
Are they? Are you rolling your eyes at anyone and saying, oh, that's not really the way that you should be doing this. You've seen a lot of this and I'm just curious what you thought coming away from running remote, but also in general.
Han Talbot: I think we are in a very interesting time right now, and I say this from having tried to start conversations with tourism boards.
Oh, back in 2020 and 2019 and people were saying, no, this isn't possibly a thing that people want this, it's remote workings of a phase overall.
Curtis Duggan: I think they're still saying that a little bit and we just gotta keep chipping away. Exactly.
Han Talbot: But that's just it. So it's been very interesting for the last, I would say, especially.
Probably the nearly two years. As we've come out, the pandemic and lockdowns have been lifted. More and more tourism boards are starting to take on conversations and strategies and plans around long stayed visitors like digital nomads and remote workers because they see the benefit in the all year round tourism for examples in the cases of Croatia, where they're used to having, say two seasons, summer and winter, it.
Provides them, obviously with much more sustainable economy too where you don't have a sudden influx in certain places and then they're gone. Or, they're, you have more of a sustainable community all year round potentially as well in different regions. I would say that tourism, because I, for example, I have been going to World Travel Market in London for since 2018 and last year at their show I had so much interest, like I'd never noticed.
Never experienced before from speaking to tourism boards. When I said I, I work in the remote life in digital nomad industry, I've had so many people being curious about what that is and just wanting to have further conversations. And then of course that has turned into more collaborations.
That has turned into more conversations, that people are wanting to be involved in my podcast as well, to talk more about digital NMA tourism, and then they've got, Places like, Dubrovnik who are creating whole passes for digital nomads to then come experience the town. So I think we are in a very interesting time now and a very exciting time where more tourism boards are and more governmental bodies are showing interest.
And I wouldn't say there's necessarily a negative way to go about it right now because it's all learnings and it's all. All about what it is that they're aiming for. So I'm not, I couldn't genuine, genuinely think of an example that has made it cringe or anything. I'm just seeing a lot more interest from tourism boards and them understanding how it will benefit there.
Even down to the quieter cities and destinations that aren't so high upon the popular list, attracting long-term visitors to these quieter towns. Could actually be better, very beneficial for their communities and their long-term economy. So I think any interest right now and any kind of stage of trying is good.
Curtis Duggan: the countries and the nations seem to be quite interested in moving forward with publishing and moving into law, all kinds of digital nomad and remote work visas. So the countries that have the federal power to make it legal or, if you think of 2017, a lot of people just did it in a gray area.
I'll go on my tourist visa and, that's still the case nowadays. If you're going somewhere for. It's 15 days. You most digital nomads are not getting any kind of right to work. They're just going on a tourist visa, opening the laptop and they're heading out. And the countries I think really starting during the pandemic with Caribbean Islands and then Estonia, and then a floodgate of other countries.
Started saying we are publishing a digital nomad or remote work visa. And I think this is a good thing. It looked like a step in the right direction to just put a framework in place for someone who says, raises their hand and says, I don't wanna break the law. I just I want to go somewhere for six months and I know I'm not supposed to work.
What does my employer think? It's at least, version one of something. But I do notice that digital nomad thought leaders tend to complain about these visas a lot. Why Digital nomad visas? Aren't great. They're not really digital nomad visas, they're for remote workers. And so I'm just curious, have you ever used one?
Do you think that is helpful or is it just a marketing distraction to have a nomad visa and the real, the real nomads are just gonna slip in and out everywhere and not ignore all of those programs?
Han Talbot: That's an interesting question. I I think it, it entirely depends on what your purpose of travel and remote work is.
I would say for example, if I think about people who want, who have fallen in love with Croatia for example, and they wanna go spend more time there, they wanna have a base, they want to really build up a solid community and. Yeah, okay. They wanna dip in and out of go on a weekend trip here or whatnot, but they really love the lifestyle and the vibe of Croatia and they've got an employer who's happy to work for them to work remotely.
I think that the Croatia digital, my Visa, it's not the best example I think because it's obviously takes that much longer to get approved and there's a few more things you have to do for it. But as a, the first example off the top of my head, If I think about the people who I've met there who have the visa and are extending the visa because they just absolutely have fallen in love with the lifestyle, the language, the culture, it makes total sense to have these specific visas because again, digital nomad visas, obviously, generally speaking.
Again, please go check your, the fine print before you do any of this, but. The majority of these visas that are now coming out are for people who work specifically in telework, as it were, so digital laptop related work, and they're bringing in income from outside the country. So for example, if you want to work with a Croatian company, you need to be able to have a different type of work visa as opposed to the digital nomad visa, where you can bring in income, you can work in Croatia as long as you're bringing in income remotely.
I don't think it's just Mark. I be, I'm, I've not actually heard anybody being like, oh, it's just marketing and stuff. That's an interesting take. I didn't know that was actually a thought. I'm not
Curtis Duggan: saying that it's a, I'm not saying lots of people are saying that I'm, it's more that I notice specific digital nomad thought leaders.
Criticizing that the visas don't go far enough. Specifically the idea that I don't want to commit to a country for 12 months. I want some, I want a system where I can go somewhere, eight weeks here, eight weeks there, eight weeks there, and going through the whole process to emigrate, to curia, or emigrate to Costa Rica.
Doesn't really. That's me moving to one country. That's not me being a digital nomad in eight places throughout the year. So I'm not saying I agree totally with the extent of the criticism. So I'm almost like I'm arguing bringing up a third person into this debate that isn't even here. So maybe that's not even the best way to, to do it.
Han Talbot: thing I was gonna add is that we have come so far in what the first Visa digital nomad specific visa was published in what, 2021. Yeah. Yeah. That, and it's been two years and there's al, there's about 50 different options you can choose from at this point. And that's a lot. That's a, we've come quite far, I would say, in the short span of two years.
So I am, I'm gonna be the eternal optimist that I am, and people might, roll their eyes for this, but I'm optimistic that something will figure itself out. It's not gonna happen overnight, but I'm sure that we are on our way to making these. There's more possible for people and yeah, I think we've come so far, so quickly in such a short space of time that I would not be surprised if something like that came up next
Curtis Duggan: In a utopia where let's say it's very easy to live and work anywhere with an hour of work per app, or less and hundreds of countries open up to you.
Do you for foresee yourself pursuing bases as some people call them in different areas? Or do you feel. Permanently committed to the continuous nomad travel lifestyle. Where did you get, where have you gotten on sussing out? Where does this all go in, in the sense of how you view no. Is nomadism forever or is it just a step to somewhere else?
What I notice is some people assume just like a person that's 20 and backpacking that it must be. It must be just a quick phase before you find the next thing. And so I'm not actually saying, I think a lot of people it's good to, put the foot down and say no, this is my life.
But I'm just curious how you think about this for your own life. And then as we get into, five, 10 years of nom mading, some, not me, but some of us are, have been nomad that long like you to a certain extent, how you look at the future Again, I think
Han Talbot: there's so many different ways. That I could answer that.
And so many different reasons for my decision, 'cause I get, I've weirdly been asked so much, oh, what are you gonna do when you want to settle down? And
Curtis Duggan: I'm like, yeah what whatcha talking about? What, when did I hint to if, yeah. And maybe not ever.
Han Talbot: But I think, I guess the big thing for me is the fact that I had lived abroad twice before I even.
Understood what a digital nomad was. Moving around actually isn't anything new or scary for me, I've, I'd say change is more normal for me as a person than having a routine and being based in one place and settled is, which is why I find it funny when people are like, oh, what you're gonna do when you want to settle?
I'm like, I don't know what that means. But 'cause even down to my job is very, it requires flexibility. My day to day. So I can't even say, oh, my job, requires stability. It, that's not it either. So I think, so I've obviously been on a remote for 10 years anyway, so I'm used to flitting about and doing different things.
I tried. I'm not, but it's okay. I would say that I've tried full-time travel and work for the last like year and a half, but even then I still ended up by complete coincidence, being based in like the UK for six months of that, for example. So it I guess I don't really have a very, again, a very linear answer to all of this, I suppose for me.
I'm glad that I've got faster travel out my system and I am in the process of looking for a base of some sort. Not to say that you'll only catch me in that one place for the rest of my life, but I do miss things like not having to pack up my life every few weeks. And. Just knowing that all, I can buy a to coffee table book or like a piece of art.
These are all very superficial reasons, but I guess I'm definitely at that point now where I'm like, I want to at least have a base somewhere fairly central so that I can still go do all these like exciting bits and pieces and still travel, but without the kind of just having that uncertainty of okay, where am I gonna stay next?
Curtis Duggan: do you have top candidates for? Where you want a base, your
Han Talbot: wishlist? It will probably be Europe for the next year or so. But I would absolutely love to go back to South America at some point and base myself there for say, a year or two and then, have a base and then travel around to different bits and pieces.
Because I've not seen, I've only done like one area of Argentina. There's so much more of Brazil. I would still love to see Columbia and
Curtis Duggan: there's, I wouldn't say easy access, but there's proximity to Mexico and Central America and lots of places there that are emerging as as destinations on the Nomad trail and just, Great places to visit in their own right, regardless of whether they're a nomad hotspot off the nomad trail on out there in a, in an entire continent in South America.
There's definitely the subculture of people from north, people from everywhere looking at Latin America as a place to. Buy some real estate because it's cheaper as like similarly to, to London. I think maybe this has always been an idea, for many decades it was deemed too dangerous.
It probably still is seen as too dangerous in the eyes of many people, but it's emerging now, as in this globalized multipolar, not unipolar world where, you know, quote unquote America or the UK or Australia or Canada is not the one of the best places, but there are. Dozens of quote unquote best places that people can establish themselves.
I think more and more people will look at bases and something that was only. Really an idea for the super rich is now becoming more and more common. I it's becoming more and more common for me to hear people talking about, I might have a base in South America and in Portugal, and they're talking about, I don't wanna assume anyone's finances, but they're talking about, modest apartment in both places.
That is maybe. A third of the cost of a detached house in Canada or in the UK where those things are a million, $1.5 million or 2 million pounds are just outrageous. And then you look around and there's Oh, okay. On Madera. There's a condo that I could get for, I don't know, 200,000 euro. Still a lot of money to save up in the piggy bank and mortgages I'm sure are much harder.
But I'm interested in short, in saying all of this, I'm interested in how the international real estate market, This niche will play out over the next decade. And what people, when they do want to have a coffee table book for longer than a week, where they will buy places and if that will happen, or if people will just not feel safe, 'cause when you're in your it's probably the same in the UK and Canada when you want to get a house, it's like all of society is set up to make you feel safe. And there's realist and there's legislation in, there's. There's law and contracts and there's banks that will look at you and say, Hey, if you've got a job, you can get this mortgage.
And then of course, if you're a nomad, a remote worker, an expat, whatever you wanna call yourself in some other country, and your bank's over here in this country, and your job's over here in this other country, I don't think it's a, I don't think you're gonna get a mortgage as quickly. And so I'm interested in that whole area and I'll be.
Interested to see, if you do decide to get a base, how that whole process is when you're not sitting there and some in front of someone oh yeah, I've been working at this job eight years in this city here in London. Here's my pay stubs. Give me a mortgage.
They're like, oh, okay, there you go. You can go have a house and you'll pay it down over 35 years or whatever. Or you can go have a flat and you can pay it down over 30 years. So all of that I think, is totally new. That just, but there's a demand, I think, for people to have their coffee table book and their base that they return to and they can, their keys and that kind of thing.
Han Talbot: I think it, it's definitely gonna be an interesting what time. And the only thing I would also add to that also, 'cause I'll be completely honest, I really don't like the whole term of where is best to go for digital nomads. Because I think I, I'm probably gonna really upset some people again, but I really don't appreciate this whole concept of, oh, go here because it's cheap, like cheap for who?
I real, that makes me give massive ick when people start saying that. So the only thing I would also add on to that is also don't think of it in terms of like, where's cheap. And again, I'm sure there'll be investors or people like that going, no, I'm gonna go like wherever the value is and dah.
Cool. You do you? But I'll also say that please pick places based off of where you would like to go yourself. As well and then find the best deals within that. Because I think whenever, again, we're in a bit of a pivotal time where we've gotta find this harmony between being these long-term visitors with a bit of extra cash and recognizing where also we are coming in as visitors.
And you don't necessarily have a right to stake our claim on this because this these pieces of land. So I would just like to add that as well. Pick the places that resonate with you and you love and the culture and the community that you love being around also so that you can find that most harm. The harmonious way of doing that, and again, I know it's easier said than done, but I think.
That there's gotta be that at the heart of it as well.
Curtis Duggan: Yeah, and I think what can go really wrong for people when they apply this narrow lens that you are criticizing about the cost, solely the cost is that they realize they didn't, I. They're a, they're just a lonely gentrifier that didn't want to learn the local language.
And a year or two later, the dream of, oh, I, I got a deal by buying a place for let's say 90,000 euro or somewhere. And I realize I, I don't actually want to integrate with the local culture. And that's that's essentially, For the person doing it. It's not really a way to live a life. And then for the people that are being gentrified, it's also obnoxious, in the sense that it's, it contributes to these political conversations about locals getting priced out of their own markets.
Han Talbot: Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I'm not like, completely unaware of these things happen and it can't stop them happening. But I think. We have an interesting responsibility now as digital nomads, as remote workers, long stay visitors, to be able to set a bit more of a responsible standard.
I think as well, because I think, again, yeah, it's great that we are distributing this wealth. But I, my, I would just like to add my 2 cents in as it were that. It's just about being mindful. Being mindful of where you're going. And again, as long as we know that we are being mindful, we are going places we genuinely want to love and appreciate and contribute to.
Things. I think that's a more positive approach of looking at things as digital name ads. And when I say base, also at the moment I'm thinking renting. I'm thinking no, that's a good
Curtis Duggan: clarification. Yeah. A lot of people use that word to mean buying a piece of real estate, but of course, yeah, of course you can just simply rent long term somewhere.
Han Talbot: Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's different ways of doing it. I don't wanna sound all doom and gloom and like pointing fingers, but I think that we're just in this very interesting. Moment now where I wouldn't be surprised. I feel like the market is already speeding up. Like the remote life market is speeding up so quickly already.
In terms of where we're advancing, how remote work itself is advancing remote life is advancing that, I think it's just a good idea to set, take stock and be wary. 'cause I know that there are some people who wanna put out their ideas without entirely thinking about. Communities as well.
Curtis Duggan: I agree with you.
I think that I agree. I mostly agree with you. I would say, I said may maybe the challenge or like the, I don't know the right word for it, but the kind of the, not the exception, but I'll just say it. It is. I think where it's challenging is more, what I'll say is imagine someone from Toronto or London or Vancouver or Sydney or Melbourne, who has some form of income, is a remote worker, but their hometown if a flat or an apartment or a house in their hometown is somewhere between 1,000,004 mil, 3 million pounds of dollars.
And so they, they're just like I'm cry one night. They're a certain age, they're. Crying to themselves. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying I'm doing this, but I, but there's just a strong pull to Establish oneself by buying real estate. And they realize, I'm not gonna be able to live in the city that I grew up in, or a city that I grew up near.
I need to go somewhere else. And so they look online, they research and they find places like split or Madeira or Costa Rica or parts of Mexico, and they say, I'll never be able to afford, or I don't want to afford a $1.5 million house here. I'm gonna go there. Look at this, I can get something for 200 or 300,000.
Again, maybe not you or me, but someone who has that poll I need, like eventually I need to have my h my real estate. I need to have my primary residence. Again, I don't necessarily think you ever need to do that, but it's a strong cult. It's a strong belief for many people. That you gotta, you make it by, by getting something, and then they get somewhere like Madeira Costa Rica, and they buy something, and then it's like, Hey you're a, you're a gentrifier.
And I'm not saying you're saying that. I just mean it's, there's these people that I've, I think there's this group of people that don't want to be gentrifiers, but they're literally gentrified or at least just priced out of their own hometown. Hometown. If they're in Sydney, Toronto, Vancouver, London, New York.
They're searching for their place and then they arrive somewhere and it's Hey, you shouldn't, don't price out the locals here. And so I'm not saying they deserve more sympathy or anything, I just think there's a, there's this market dynamic where there's gonna be a lot of shuffling.
I. In this new world. And and sometimes it's almost hard to say sometimes it's very obvious who is the gentrifier, but I think in some cases it's not so obvious whether someone who's moving away from an expensive place to quote unquote get a deal whether they're truly, in the wrong or maybe they just feel like they have no other choice.
And so that, that to me is interesting. And I think there's some. There's a lot of nuance there where I think it's there, there are going to be political, there will be strong political backlash. So my prediction is if we've seen people in Lisbon, in Mexico City say, digital nomads, your scum, go home get outta my neighborhood.
I think that will increase. I think there will be, More of that. And so I'm not saying I welcome it or relish it, but I think that more people will leave the expensive cities, more people will move to more inexpensive cities and more backlashes will happen. So I think we gotta be ready for that.
We're It's already happening. Yeah.
Han Talbot: Yeah. Oh yeah. And I, that's what I mean by you can't, there's never gonna be one perfect answer. And at the end of the day, if you look at, say for example, Lisbon, there are so many different contributing factors. And it's the same within London as well. There were so many of us that, at one point it was, for us, it was a kind of rite of passage to move to London and live the London life.
But then obviously the pandemic happened, for example, for a lot of people. Or the general pricing increase happened and people did reevaluate what they were doing. And so decided to make a move to wherever that happened to be. Yes. For example, I received a lot of backlash when I initially went to Mexico City last year, and that was just on TikTok.
Like I had a few people saying, go home. No, we don't want your contribution. And that's fair enough. That is fair enough. And we are never gonna find just in, I think we're never gonna find one perfect answer. But I think that's why I say for myself that it's about being mindful of what it is we're doing, where we're going, and how we're contributing.
And participating in that place that we go to next, I think is just as long as we can be without our conscious knowing that we are being mindful of that, you know you are. Yeah. You're never gonna please everybody. That's just a fact in business, in moving in anything.
Curtis Duggan: Yeah. Geo life on earth. 8 billion people sorting each other out.
Maybe on a more positive and optimistic note, is there anything you're excited about? Apple just released a super expensive, very much outta the reach of most people's budget. Three, $4,000 virtual reality headset. I think they're calling it spatial computing. I've been following this product category for about 10 years since the Oculus.
It has seemed like there's absolutely no reason to use a VR headset instead of just a normal, screen, laptop and monitor screen. And they may have presented a bit of a vision of. The idea of remote workers looking through a screen and working in a three D environment where all these things are overlaid in front of you, like a user interface that floats in your room that you can see.
In high definition, do you get excited about the technology that will make remote work better? Is that something you follow or is it just, Hey, if 10 years from now I'm just working on my laptop, that's okay. It works for me now it'll work for me. Then I think
Han Talbot: it's all down to personal preference things is why Did.
Yeah. There was something you mentioned earlier that I thought it really is gonna depend on people's wants and needs and what have you. For example, like I was just thinking about for myself. Yeah. Okay. I, for now, I'm completely content with having my, my MacBook, my iPad on my phone, and then my, I get more excited by like the new latest creator stuff that come out, that comes out.
Content. That's where I get excited. Yeah. Obviously my laptop's gotta be working and it's gotta be portable and it's gotta be light bit. For example, that VR headset. Sure. Great. That sounds awesome. But will it necessarily have any impact on my work right now? Probably not unless we decide to do meta events or, Events in the Metaverse.
Metaverse. Yeah. Yeah. And I saw an in interesting podcast about this. I dunno if you've ever followed Gym Shark, a company called Gym Shark. They did their whole podcast when Meta did all that stuff. And it was very interesting because again, it was like you were watching two cartoon versions of them on their podcast.
And I thought, actually that's a really, that was where I really started thinking actually there's something here that could be quite impactful for people from my personal perspective as Han. It doesn't really have too much impact on how I think and how I operate, because I like traveling. I like going around and seeing people and meeting up.
So from that perspective, and yeah I have the means to go travel around. If you're somebody who say, for example, wants to work remotely but stayed, has a house, wants to be based in one country, doesn't want to move around a lot. And generally speaking, for ease, for cost, whatever it is. I think this kind of tech could be very interesting.
And if you're working across a bunch of different time zones also, then it's actually a very great way for you to also connect with your colleagues in that respect too. So I think it really depends massively on what your needs are.
Curtis Duggan: So you mentioned creator, new creator content gets you excited. I just wanted to.
Jump back to that. I would say I listen to remote work podcasts. I listen to yours and I listen to a few others. And and this is now a remote work focused podcast. I wouldn't say that I follow a lot of visual content or video content, I guess is a better way to say it. What kinds of things do you get excited to see?
And I'll be totally frank. I think sometimes the sort of typical TikTok, Instagram, some kind of ethereal. Electronic music starts playing. There's a sped up drone shot over a sexy beach, and someone says Hey, we're here in no Sara Costa Rica. And then you follow 'em around and it's here's what I have for coffee.
That's not my thing. I love all, I do love certain YouTube videos. I like informative things. What's the latest nomad visa? I do like video of cool places. I'm not saying that, but I think sometimes it feels like if I go, digital nomad content, I open up. YouTube or TikTok. There's like a lot of stuff I don't want and it's about finding like the good stuff.
So as you produce content and consume content what gets you excited where you see something and you're like, this is new. What makes it feel new or what makes it feel like I'm gonna subscribe and Yeah, just follow this person and go deeper?
Han Talbot: Yeah. So I have to remember, I've been doing, I've been generally producing.
Content online with a purpose for about a decade. And obviously I've been on social media for probably half my life at this point. And so therefore I'm generally clear and I've always been fascinated about how people communicate. Yeah. I, I grew up as a kid who grew up learning languages, being integrated into like communities and things like that.
So generally speaking, communication has always been like my nerdy fascination and how we communicate with each other. Next, I would say, when I say I get excited by new creative things, it's normally, say for example, a new piece of tech. For example. Got it. I would get my hands on an F P V drone, which is that one that, it's like, it's first per first person view.
It's like you are a bird going through the mountains on this drone, for example. Which, just different maneuvers and things. And or for example, my GoPro, I went out surfing with a guy over the weekend and we were just having so much fun. I caught probably about three waves in about two hours.
Oh wow. No, because we were just nattering and like playing with the, my GoPro and just playing with shots and bits and pieces. So for me, the excitement comes from telling the story. And a big part of that also was triggered by the fact that I've obviously seen this big kind of process and evolution of the content creator industry from, the heavily.
Filtered images of 2014 with like crazy saturation to where it became more about near the ethereal lifestyle shots to where we are at now, where people want to hear about authentic experiences, and actually there's a whole trend of de influencing that's happening. From my perspective, it's about I, I try to preach this as much as possible.
Tell your story. What is your story and why are you here? Stop considering the amount of likes and focus on what the story is that you're telling. And from that perspective, I get very excited when I start seeing people who are telling their authentic version. Of their trips, of their life, of a place they visited and how they do that in a different way, and how I can adapt that into remote life as well.
So taking popular trends from say lifestyle people, beauty people, travel people, letting the traditional short term stent sense and translating that into long stay visitor content. I guess is where I get excited and it's not for everyone, but that's just how I get excited and how I get my kicks.
Curtis Duggan: I definitely like the idea of f the latest creator specific tech. I haven't done m much video, so it's not like I've nerded out recently. I, when I was younger I used to nerd out, but it'll be I'll have to pick your brain and in the future on Yeah. What is actually happening in tech in terms of cameras, drones, and all this kind of stuff.
Because I do think what I see is, There are these waves of innovation and tech drives a new kind of video that seems to pop out overnight and you're like, why is this video suddenly, why is this genre of video suddenly everywhere? And it's usually because some piece of tech came out. And so I'm gonna pay attention more to that and try and learn, dig a bit deeper into I.
What are the tech waves that push influencer and creator waves to look at, look a certain way? Because I spend a lot of time on Twitter and I consume a lot of text and I follow you a lot. I get a lot of your content through Twitter 'cause I'm just wired that way and I'm old. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in more and make a concerted effort to watch the content you're creating on video and learn a little bit more about where are we at in 2023 with creator content.
Han Talbot: I'll just add a lot of my Twitter videos on my phone. Yeah, and a lot of stuff I put onto LinkedIn, I'm normally taken on my phone. Yeah. So although I mentioned about F P V drones and being fascinated by new tech, I'll add this, that there is still so much that our phones can do nowadays and to not discredit your phone and what your phone is capable of
Curtis Duggan: doing.
Yeah, it's a powerful machine in the cameras. Get better every year. I al I never used to get that just the way I am when Apple all along for 15 years when Apple would focus on the new camera for 20 minutes of an Apple keynote presentation. And I always thought, that's great. Yeah.
We know that the camera is getting better, that's what happens. But it, I've come around to realize in this world we live in now and the way media has played out over the last. Decade. It's like in retrospect, of course the camera was almost the most important thing every year for the phone.
It's what everybody's looking for. Can I get my media to look a little bit better just with the device that I have in my pocket? So as we wrap up here, are there. I don't even wanna say hot, no man destinations. I just wanna say places you wanna go in the next year, whether they're hot or not, that are new in, in 2023 or even 2024 that you might wanna, I.
Suggest to other people, or maybe you haven't been there yet and you can't vouch for it yet, but it's just on your list.
Han Talbot: Yeah. So of course I'll absolutely recommend heading to Croatia. There are, as a country it's obviously gorgeous and there's so much to explore and see, but the guys on the, in the different regions are also really like, Heading up a lot of exciting projects at the moment over there for digital nomads and long Sea tourists, so definitely check them out for me personally.
Yeah, the Balkans always have a place in my heart. I'm also intrigued to see more of these other emerging towns that are focusing on long-term tourism as well. And then for me, I absolutely, probably were 20, 24, if not the end of this year. I absolutely want to go back to South America. I've been saying this for nearly 10 years.
I need to get back to Brazil because especially where it's, where I studied Florian Anolis is now becoming a bit of a hotspot. It was already a bit of a hotspot for travelers and backpackers. But now there is actually a bit of a digital nomad community as I understand things as well as Buenos Aires as well.
Like obviously we met them at running remote and. It was already on my list before anyway, but now that I know again that they are actively intrigued and interested in bringing in long state tourism, they've just been, they've really hooked me even more. There are so many different places, and I'm that person that's like everywhere is on my list, so it's,
Curtis Duggan: yeah I would like to see Flori in the next.
I would love to see it in the next six months, but I'll let to be realistic, probably in the next 18 months, I'd like to take a trip down there and other places in the Southern cone and Brazil. But Florida RPA especially just seems it seems like my kind of place, but We'll ha. I'll have to go and find out if that's true.
Han Talbot: Yeah, it's so chill, so
Curtis Duggan: relaxed. Han thanks so much. Is there somewhere where you want people to find you if they want to see more of your work, where should they go? Hand
Han Talbot: meets world on all the things and yeah. Check out the Remote Life Podcast on all platforms. Awesome.
Curtis Duggan: I'll be doing more of that too.
And I'll be looking at the screen to see if I underst, what kind of camera did she use here? Was that a drone? Was that a, was that deep focus? I'll be looking at your content and analyzing what tech you used. 'cause I've just been turned on to that way of looking at content now.
I guess it's it's closer to the evening for you. So we'll have a good evening and we'll see you on the Nomad Trail. Yeah, likewise. Thank
Han Talbot: you for having me.
Curtis Duggan: Thanks.